Contenders Drop Like Flies in Vegas

The tire ripped off the left front fender and took Gordon from a contender to a car just trying to limp home with a lead lap finish.

- Do you mean come home in sixth place and take over the points lead? You must have...

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I think you got it all wrong there ghost,,,,,,GM stated it perfectly. JG had a great chance at winning this race but his own mistake ( I'm sure some will blaim Letarte ) cost him that chance. He's really lucky that the tire did blow because if it hadn't he would have at least lost 1 lap and wouldn't have finished where he did.

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Bah, I think it was still a crummy statement to make. A top 6 finish is pretty damn good with a torn up race car on a big track like Vegas, Brad.

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As a person that has been riding Steve Letarte's butt since last year, this one was not his fault. Jeff finally was given a car to win and his crew was actually on top of things this race. In fact, once he came out of the pits four spots ahead then when entering. That hasn't happened in a long time.

Brad's right. Jeff made the mistake this week. He had a tire going down, misjudged the pit road committment line and had to go back around the mile in half track again, leaving him to blow a tire. What a shame. He did have a car to win as did Johnson.

And how completeley uncharactistic of Johnson to just "lose" it. Rarely do the two Hendrick stars make such mistakes, but this race was not theirs to win.

What's more disconcerning is why two weeks in a row Hendrick Motor Sports had engines going down. Dale Jr. and Mark Martin last week and Mark Martin again this week. What's up with that?

Kim

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I still think your missing the point Ghost, Jeff's finish was fantastic but if he had not made the mistake in the first place he had a decent chance to win.

Hey Kim, I don't really consider JJ's spin that much of a mistake but more so him just giving 110% to make up ground and get the best finish he could. Gordon's miscue put him in a hole and even after getting his lap back with the lucky dog he was going all out to get back up front. It seems with the new tire these cars are alittle extra twitchy. As far as the engines I personally think it's just to much stress on these motors with the RPM'S their turning. So far it's not any one particular Mfg. as they all seem to be having engine failures. JMO

Aloha

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Hi Brad!

I am so glad you are back! Missed you! :-)

You and I both know I am no whiz when it comes to the knowledge of what's underneath the hood, LOL, so I must say your thoughts on the RPM's running too high for the engines makes sense to me.

You're right, too. It doesn't seem to matter what manufacturer it is. Kenseth who won the past two races and drives a Ford, blew up yesterday. (On a side note, I really felt bad for him yesterday. That just sucked.) The Hendrick engines are Chevys. Have any Toyotas blown up recently? I don't really pay attention to many of the Toyota drivers.

I thought it odd as Hendrick does not usually allow the same mistakes to be made twice. Two weeks in a row with major engine failures just seems uncharacteristic of them. Mark Martin certainly isn't going to be a chase/championship contender if his engines blow up every week. Poor guy. Talk about a bad "welcome to the new team." I really hope they get their stuff together for Mark, quick. He's a class act all the way, IMO.

And of course my main man, Jimmie was giving 110%. Thanks for recognizing that! :-)

Glad to have you back!

Kim

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Hi Brad!

I am so glad you are back! Missed you! :-)

You and I both know I am no whiz when it comes to the knowledge of what's underneath the hood, LOL, so I must say your thoughts on the RPM's running too high for the engines makes sense to me.

You're right, too. It doesn't seem to matter what manufacturer it is. Kenseth who won the past two races and drives a Ford, blew up yesterday. (On a side note, I really felt bad for him yesterday. That just sucked.) The Hendrick engines are Chevys. Have any Toyotas blown up recently? I don't really pay attention to many of the Toyota drivers.

I thought it odd as Hendrick does not usually allow the same mistakes to be made twice. Two weeks in a row with major engine failures just seems uncharacteristic of them. Mark Martin certainly isn't going to be a chase/championship contender if his engines blow up every week. Poor guy. Talk about a bad "welcome to the new team." I really hope they get their stuff together for Mark, quick. He's a class act all the way, IMO.

And of course my main man, Jimmie was giving 110%. Thanks for recognizing that! :-)

Glad to have you back!

Kim

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Of interest yesterday was when the announcer said that whether it is a Ford or a Chevy, many of the internal parts are made by the same manufacturer. ie, valves, springs, and the like. While I knew the engines were all custom built with some very minor allowances by Nascar, it never occured to me that they would all be buying some of the parts from a single supplier.
While we rarely here the follow up of what exactly broke first in an engine gone bad, it would be interesting to know if the same part is the culprit in the majority of the failures so far this year.
The fact that some of the top ten were knocked down several notches is no great surprise. The only reason they were there is due to the rain shortneded race at Daytona. It was only a matter of time before they weed themselves out of the top ten any ways.
Thank God Brian France has not decided to have a real one race Super Bowl of Nascar to determine the championship. Can you imagine Michael Waltrip being declared Cup Champion in a rain shortened race?
MBL

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Unless something has changed, about the only thing you can attribute to the manufacturers is the engine block. Pretty much everything attached to it comes from an outside source, so the primary difference between them is the oiling system, which is built into the block. Each team's success is greatly determined by how well they adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of the various oiling systems, and being able to keep new parts well-lubed and cooled. Toyota may do more of their own parts, as the manufacturer is more closely involved, but they all have to fall into strict guidelines. Anyone with more insight feel free to counter, if you know otherwise.

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I don't understand why Nascar didn't place the pit cone in the right place to begin with. It seemed that an exceptional number of drivers had problems entering pit row. DW kept saying the cone was in the wrong location. Nascar is supposed to be professional. I am not blaming Jeff or Letarte. I think Nascar needs to get their act together. They are making some amateur mistakes this season. I wouldn't be too happy if I had to choose whether to get run over or face a penalty for speeding.

Don't they have simulator's so they can see what's going to happen? JMO

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Hi Gang...All nascar engines run the same type oiling system called a dry sump. It is a high-tech belt driven external pump that all race teams engine builders use. Each manufacturer has its own design oiling system in the block itself but all have been proven to be very reliable. The main cause for engine failure in high rpm racing engines (and the weakest link) is in the valve train. Usually a valve spring will break and in a short time the valve will drop down into the cylinder causing catostrophic engine failure.

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Thanks for the assist, Ron. I didn't mention the dry sump system portion because, as you said, it is universally used as the means to get the oil to the block. I know the individual designs of the oil passages within the block have notoriously been the culprits of hotspots on pistons and such, as well as excessive thinning of oil in vital areas such as main bearings and valvetrains, especially as the rpm's increase.

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Thanks Kim,
And yes several Toyotas have been having problems the past 3 weeks, that was the reason Kyle had to start in the back. Kyle did mention on the speed channel after the race ( it could have been befor ) that TRD had found a problem with the coating of their lifters from the mfg.
Again Kim thanks for the welcome back.

Ron,
before I even read your post my mind was already there brother, that simple little valve spring is probably the single most abused piece of that valve train. Even though all the parts are stressed at 9,000 RPM you and I both know that the spring is the only one of those parts that is getting metal fatigue from bending and that makes it the weakest link in the valve train.

Bob, you make some good points to, the mfg. may be different but alot of the parts inside and outside of the block (including hoses, clamps etc.) do come from the same mfg. Just because it say's toyota doesn't mean the whole thing is made in Japan ( not even close ). That line of thinking would be like saying swiss cheese is only made in Switzerland.

Aloha, Brad

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Hey Brad, good to hear from you. Great minds think alike. :-) How are things on the West Coast?

Bob, you make some good points.

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Raining like cats and dogs right now Ron, I mean it's really coming down. We need it bad but crap we don't need all at once. There are several flood warnings in the surrounding areas. I live in the San Joaquin Valley ( Stockton #1 worst place in the whole US ). Great to hear from you, Kim and Mike.

Aloha, Brad

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in respect to weather all the teams get the same parts,if you look at all the decals on the front of the cars,those are"contingencey" stickers. the teams get paid to run those decals,and they get the parts free or at a pro-rated price.at the end of the season,all those 5 and 10 k checks come in handy.someday in the not too distant future we'll see cars with overhead cam engines and fuel injection(mechanical,not computerized)and most of the engine failures will go away,except for broken rods or cam/crank failures. nascar is just like the manufacturers in that they are prisoners of the people who supply them parts,and these are mass produced,so quality control is really at about a 1 out of 100 part inspection ratio. fewer moving parts will mean fewer broken parts,when nascar starts moving into the 90's on engines.

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How right you are, Michael, about the overhead cam design--that is certainly the way to go for durability at higher rpm's. I think NASCAR hangs onto the pushrod design for sentimental reasons, to keep a connection to the hotrods of the past. Reduce the number of parts, reduce the breakage--maybe NASCAR will give in some day, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

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Ron and Brad,
I want to welcome you back. I've missed reading everyone's posts.

Bernie,
I am glad to see and read your posts again. Your driver is the real deal. Of course, you have known that all along.

Stewart Fan

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