The NASCAR world may have just found out why Joe Gibbs Racing has been so dominant in the 2008 Nationwide Series.The No. 18 and No. 20 JGR Nationwide Series teams -- driven by Joey Logano and Tony Stewart -- were accused Saturday night at Michigan International Speedway of tampering with the post-race inspection process after NASCAR found magnets attached to the back of the accelerator pedals on both cars during a chassis dyno test.
During the test, NASCAR officials discovered magnets on the accelerator pedals of the two Gibbs Toyotas. Several sources said the magnets could, in theory, keep the pedals from being fully depressed, which would limit the engines' output and distort the data available to officials.The test measures the horsepower, torque, and other numbers of an engine as it sits inside the race car and by putting a magnet behind the pedal, the numbers NASCAR would get from the test would be incorrect, leading to incorrect conclusions about the parity of the competition.
"This was an attempt to interfere with NASCAR's post-race inspection process, and we are taking it very seriously," said Jim Hunter, vice president of corporate communications for the sanctioning body.
NASCAR has done one other chassis dyno test this year in the Nationwide Series at Atlanta in March and the point of the tests are to get an accurate reading of what a varied selection of race cars have under the hood in terms of performance.
In theory, Joe Gibbs Racing and the Toyota camp as a whole could have greatly benefited from the chassis dyno test with the magnet in place because NASCAR might have changed a rule in favor of better competition by seeing numbers were unfair to the JGR Toyotas.
I would imagine there aren't going to be many concessions to Toyota from here on out in 2008 thanks to this slap-in-the-face that the JGR team dropped on NASCAR.
The magnets were most likely installed on the race cars following the completion of Saturday's Nationwide Series event at Michigan because they would be a significant performance reducer on-track. They could have been easily installed while the cars were being pushed to NASCAR inspection via a crew member reaching in and sticking it to the back of pedal.
In the Nationwide Series -- where the penalties took place -- JGR has 13 wins in 2008. The team has also been dominant in NASCAR's top Sprint Cup Series with 9 wins in 2008.
I think the worst part about the whole thing is that JGR has now managed to put a big question mark next to all of their Nationwide Series -- and in many fans eyes, the ones in the Sprint Cup Series -- wins in 2008 because of this move. There is simply no way for a team to explain their way out of this because magnets don't just magically show up on two race cars, and it opens the door to wondering what other illegal advantages the team is trying across the board.
The penalties will undoubtedly be quite substantial with crew chief suspensions, point deductions, and a tremendous amount of money. The fallout could even go deeper for JGR because its not often someone tries to interfere with NASCAR's post-race inspection -- much less a competition test.
Expect penalty results on Monday or Tuesday in the coming week.
So, in the end, was it all worth it for JGR to win a few more second-tier series events?
I say no.















Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
8-18-2008 @ 5:37AM
Rick Stott said...
When are they going to change the name of NASCAR to NAFCAR? The S in NASCAR is for stock, and the only thing stock about the cars is the logo. They'll get their fan base back when they start letting Chevys be Chevys, Fords be Fords, Dodges be Dodges and Toyotas be Toyotas. If Toyota has a better product, so be it.
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8-18-2008 @ 10:16AM
Kim said...
TOSOF:
No, some of us do not "owe you an apology". No one on here disputed the fact that Toyota had an HP advantage, in the Nationwide Series as that had been widely reported on and was fact. However, what we disputed was the Sprint Cup advantage or lack there of. There have been no reports on Toyotas having an HP advantage over the other teams in the Sprint Cup series. Furthermore, once again it isn't Toyota that is dominating the Sprint Cup series, it is Kyle Busch. Only one Toyota has out-performed in Sprint Cup and that is Kyle Busch. Sorry, but your theory doesn't hold water in Sprint Cup. Otherwise, wouldn't Stewart and Hamlin be having a better season then?
Hamlin for instance has had nothing but problems as evident by his engine blowing up yesterday with (I believe) five laps to go, and his ignition problem previously this season. Stewart has not faired much better, his average finish has been just outside the top ten (not at all common for Tony Stewart).
No other Toyota has performed well this season either. Look at MWR's performance as a whole. It's sad to say the least. If Toyota had a clear advantage in the Sprint Cup, then please explain to me why only one car in JGR is out-performing all the other Toyotas? Doesn't hold water.
Tony isn't leaving JGR because he "learned" anything, especially where cheating is concerned. It has been widely reported by NASCAR.com and others that Stewart has been extremely unhappy with the organization since switching to Toyota. Tony is a Chevy man, plain and simple. Had JGR not switched to Toyota, Tony wouldn't be leaving, IMO.
Kim
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8-18-2008 @ 12:38PM
Susan said...
I expected Jack Rousch to be irate and outspoken. I'm surprised that Richard Childress has been so outspoken. Childress said the dyno tests showed a 14 HP advantage.
I am certain that the penalties are going to be severe too.
I do not believe that Coach Gibbs or JD Gibbs would have ever approved the magnets. Plus they have both stated that their employees that are responsible will have additional penalties from JGR Racing. I think it was just a couple of knuckleheads. :)
How does Art's comment keep moving? It was right after ad's comment last night.
Stay safe from the hurricane!!!
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8-18-2008 @ 3:41PM
99fan said...
how come nobody is ripping tony or joey a new a$$ like they did carl with the oil cooler lid? this is WAY worse and more intentional than that..
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8-18-2008 @ 7:45PM
anna seitter said...
999 tony stewart and joey lugano did not install, authorize or
or originated the stupid idea to put those magnets on the pedal to screw around with the DYNO READING.
Such action was the idea of a couple crew members which took the action on their own without TONY OR JOEY OR JOE GIBBS OR J.D. GIBBS knowing anything about.
A nnd at this point i would bet that not either the respective crew chiefs knew anything about. I know that the NAZC REGIME will now slam hard on those 2 teams with sanction-points and fines but a JUST ACTION AND PUNISMENT should really be JOE /JD GIBBS FIRING THOSE 2 EMPLOYERS ON THE SPOT and slap a high fine on the teams.However, as usual, nazcar will act in the nazi' manners.
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8-19-2008 @ 5:23AM
anna seitter said...
ART and his antijapanese squad follows as around SUSAN,
that's why now he is on this page right near us. I'm going to check my rear view auto mirror much more often from now on.
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8-19-2008 @ 6:05AM
99fan said...
well,anna, not to get in a direct discussion with you but that was my whole point! im sure carl didnt approve of the whole oil lid thing but HE was labeled as a cheater,not his team.
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8-19-2008 @ 7:23AM
Mike LeVan said...
I understand your point of view on the JGR team Anna but answer me this. It has now been a few days since the scandal broke. Joe Gibbs has had ample time to find out who did it, whose idea it was, and fire them publicly to show his stance against cheating. He has not done so. Why is that?
It seems to me that the lack of an agressive investigation and punishment by Joe Gibbs shows his tacit approval of what was going on.
MBL
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8-19-2008 @ 10:06AM
John said...
Anna, I find your referencing NASCAR to nazi's as offensive to say the very least. You make light to what they did to so many people by associating a sport to them.
As for what happened with the Joe Gibbs Racing team, well, a handful of people really know what happened, and why it happened. To be sure, even if the owners or managers of the teams were aware, they will not come clean on it, and those who did it will take the wrap. Now I find it extremely hard to believe that this happened and no one saw it happening, not one person on that team, except the ones who placed the magnets under the gas pettle.
On a side note, I believe that all teams should go into the gray area, not outright cheat or attempt to hide anything. I give Toyota and Dodge credit for building an engine that developes that much horsepower, which can be an advantage from all I have seen and heard. Chevy and Ford need to catch up. That being said, Toyota should be greatly ashamed that someone who represents their company would attempt to hide the true numbers.
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8-19-2008 @ 12:49PM
99fan said...
i think everyone is giving toyota way too much credit..last time i looked it was ONE toyota that was doing the winning. lets not get carried away here and make out like a different toyota wins every week.. kyles TEAM has been awesome and he has proven to be one helluva driver,but lets not pretend that ford, dodge and chevy cant compete!! as far as "chevy and ford need to catch up" there are 5 chevys and 3 fords in the top 12 .. maybe im missing something!!!
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8-19-2008 @ 10:05PM
anna seitter said...
Well JOHN i'm sorry that you feel that way about nazcar but that has been my opinion of nascar sanctioning body for the last couple years. In reality the nazi nascar label on these pages was not even begun by me but another poster that has since gone or is posting under another name.I JUST FOUND THE LABEL VERY APPROPRIATE to stick it to a sport sponsor that since the early years of nascar life has been doing much of anything else but establishing NEVER ENDING NEW RULES. Fans and DRIVERS and even team components
are not affected by the nazi label.
And yes somebody in those teams may known about the other couple teammates that i9nstalled the magnets and are they going to talk?. NNOOO.
Even if they will, what's going to change? NAZCAR is still going to slap hard on those JGR teams.Actually if they talk they may end up supplying NASCAR with more ammunition and conseguently even harder punishment.Had you been part of that team and saw or heard something , would you talk to THE REGIME to make things worse for your teammates?
i would not. What i would done and they could too( if there is other knowing teammates) ,knowing how hard nazcar has being coming down on this BS COT rules breaking is RATT AT ONCE the trasgressors derectly to JD/ J GIBBS FOR THE GOODWILL OF THE ALL TEAM.
I'm sure that jd&jo gibbs never knew a bit of this attempted cheating knowing their integrity and morals in this sport for many years. J G R WILL NOT EVEN ALLOW A BEER OR ANY ALCOHOL SPONSOR LOGOS ON THEIR CARS.
YES it was a stupid dumb idea no matter who originated the cheating idea and i said so also in previous posts,but it's late
now to save jgr from whatever nascar is going to hit them with.
By the way the third reich of adolph hitler was the biggest fan
and sponsor of sports in NAZI GERMANY and all over EUROPE and A. HITLER main sports followed were SOCCER AND RACING. ( the pride of germany).
hasta la vista...
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8-20-2008 @ 12:48AM
anna seitter said...
999fan i agree with you that carl was labeled as the cheater and not is team but i'm also sure you agree that there is a lot of ignorance out there and even on this pages at times.
I do not remember myself saying that EDWARDS was the cheater and so i don't think that you are referring to me in any ways and so, it's no big deal if we discuss it or not.
However, at times i believe any of us bloggers can find ourselves among the ignorant group and so we post crap.We all make mistakes and none of us is perfect.
Anyway, if i remember correctly the all team was target of nazcar sanctions and fines, not just hatewards but of course he got the worse end of the stick because he lost 100 points.
Another NAZI STYLE ACTION BY NASCAR: EDWARDS was innocent and so many others around that team and maybe even JACK GROUCH did not have anything to do with, SO:
WHY DID THE GESTAPO SLAMM HARD ON EVERYBODY OF THERE?...............................................NAZCAR ways of ruling!.
have a nice day.
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8-20-2008 @ 12:57AM
anna seitter said...
mike just because few days went by and nothing has gotten to the media about the GIBBS acting against their 2 illecit employees, does not necessarily means that nothing has got done or will get done. Lets give time and see and that is (we will see if it ever gets to trhe media); however i agree, if the gibbs action is done publicly that's JOE&JD GIBBS best way to
show their innocence.Could also be that those 2stupid employees are good top model employees and the GIBBS may let this 1 time wrong doing, flow by with heavy warnings only and in the next few times, if they act illecit again than the s..t will pile up and they are going to hit the road.Like you, i was not there to report exactly who and what did this and that and
who was part of the plot other than the 2, and so i have to wait for the news just like ya all, however i think you know and did read about the GIBBS stand integrity and morals before; so your bag may not hold any water.If i owned JGR, I would had acted firmly and instantly telling them to check in at the unemploy. office or post an application at stew. haas racing
which are looking for employees no matter how good model workers they may be. ciao,ciao.
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8-20-2008 @ 10:02PM
frederick helmuthThis 'caught incident might explain why those cars have been able to come from behind so easily said...
This cheating incident might explain why those guys have been able to come from behind so e3asily!
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8-21-2008 @ 6:44AM
anna seitter said...
OK 7PEOPLE OUT OF WORK INDEFENETELY including 2crew chiefs . $50.000 fine on the ousted ,each,150points off
stewart 20 , 150points off joey logano 18 ;probation for both drivers to season end. JOE GIBBS ANNOUNCES , HE is going to hit those employees with more suspensions and fines.
MIKE -JOHN- 999 FAN I'M SURE YOU AGREE,it was not a slap on the wrist. I EXPECTED A HARD HIT and so has been. MIKE and JOHN you two were right about other teammates involvment and to my surprise also somebody had to talk to the nascar rulers otherwise how from 2 people involvment previously publicyzed by the media, the punisment includes 7
people.999 fan ,i'm sure by now you don't think anymore that EDWARDS was singled out when he got chopped of 100 points while ago.
To the few toyota haters that hate foreighn car makes in nascar and for long time you have being speculating about NAZCAR FAVORING TOYOTA AND JGR;
YOUR MOUTH HAS JUST BEING CAPPED WITH A BIG FOOT!!
works for me....
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8-21-2008 @ 9:10AM
TheOtherSideofReason said...
anna,
Please read this from Jack R. This explains HOW NASCAR has been relaxing the rules for Toyata enginge builders. It also explains why they had such a HP advantage over all the other cars.
"(NASCAR) gave them a bunch of considerations from a parameter point of view, a dimension point of view that was outside the box in terms of what the Ford engine was," Roush said. "The pushrods are straighter. The camshaft is higher. The pushrods are shorter. The valve train is stiffer. The cooling system works better. All of those things were things that NASCAR uses discretion to approve that obsoleted the Ford engine and we can't make as much power as they do with the parts we have and right now we can't afford to obsolete all the parts that we have.
"So NASCAR, in the interest of fairness and balance in the competition from a potential point of view, after they went to great lengths to be able to check the engines to find out what they were doing, decided that they needed to rein Toyota in and that's what they did. There's crying and complaining about it, but the problem was when they submitted the engine, Toyota had approved things that obsoleted, really, everybody else, and now we've all got the necessity to come back and re-design and obsolete our current engines in order to get competitive.
"The error wasn't ours for getting behind. The error was in what Toyota offered and what NASCAR approved."
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/8471042/Tough-penalties-were-needed-for-JGR
The Last line says it all!!!!
Once again...I am CORRECT!!! NASCAR had given Toyota's an advantage...just like I've been saying for the last 3 months!!!
I told you so. I told you so!!
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8-21-2008 @ 9:48AM
Kim said...
TOSOF:
For the love of God!!! What are you, four? My children who are eight, nine, and ten all say, "I told you so, I told so!" Seriously, dude....you are still incorrect. You haven't told us anything factual still.
Look, you fail to mention in your above statement just which series Jack R. was referring to? Was it the Nationwide Series as I suspect? Again as stated earlier, Toyota did receive an HP advantage in the NATIONWIDE SERIES. Nowhere has it been reported or verified that they received an HP advantage in Sprint Cup. Furthermore, once again let me explain to you that only one Toyota is dominating in Sprint Cup.....Kyle Busch. It's not the CAR, IT'S THE DRIVER!!!!! What are all the other Toyotas doing during Sprint Cup then? Sitting back and just cruising. I am still not buying into your conspiracy. I still see no "proof" where Sprint Cup is concerned.
Kim
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8-21-2008 @ 10:01AM
Kim said...
"Once NASCAR inspectors discovered the spacer and reran the Camrys on the dyno, Toyota topped the chart with 640 horsepower — eight additional counts without the spacer. Before the spacer was discovered, Toyota tanked with Dodge at 632 hp. The Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolets and Roush Fenway Racing Fords were all in the 634 to 636 range."
Other Side:
The above quote is from the article you attached in your above post. I see you left this very important part of the article out. Once again, the HP advantage falls within a 4-8 HP range over the other manufacturers. Now, the argument is and has been.....Would four to 8 extra HP advantage really help a car excel that much more than those below it? Perhaps it has in the Nationwide Series as they are not running the COT full-time yet and run at slower speeds than the Sprint Cup Series. But like I suspected, your article that you posted, that I just read, and that I am quoting above, refers to the Nationwide Series only! There is still nothing about Sprint Cup. Please clarify your argument so those of us who are trying to understand it, just might be able to jump on your thought train.
Kim
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8-21-2008 @ 10:28AM
TheOtherSideofReason said...
Kim,
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
Where were the Toyota's last year? Barely making it. M. Waltrip qualified for how many races last year? Less than half!! This year, he's solidly in the top 35. That is the type of improvement one would expect to see.
Now there are 3 Toyota's in the top 12. How did this happen? MAGIC? As a matter of fact, all three are JGR cars!! Not bad for a "first year" Toyota team to accomplish this.
Of course the quote from Jack Roush was about the NNS teams. That is the topic of the penalties (which, if you read the very first post in this topic, you'll see NASCAR followed my suggestions (almost) to the letter.)
You seem to forget simple logic when drawing conclusions about what is happening. If you think what happened to JGR is isolated to the NNS, you are sadly mistaken. The correct logic in this situation is "Guilt by Association".
Now that NASCAR has mud on their face by allowing this to happen, you'll see a much tighter control of the Toyota's next year.
NOW...take the time to research everything I've written. Every statement by me regarding Toyota's in the NNS has been substantiated by facts from NASCAR. I was the first to write that NASCAR engine rules gave them a HP advantage. Then NASCAR went and changed the rules to even things out.
One last thing..."Seriously, dude.." This shows your maturity level. Do you live in the "Valley"? And what makes you think I'm a "dude"
Someday you will learn to listen and accept what I say. Until then, just keep living in your imaginary world where everything is black and white and the only things that are "True and Factual" are what you want to believe.
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8-21-2008 @ 11:08AM
Kim said...
Other Side:
Someday I will "learn to listen and accept what you say?" Are you serious? I take no orders from any man (and yes, I know you are a man because only a man would be dumb enough to make such a statement to a woman). And because I referred to you as a "dude" that shows my maturity level or apparently in your opinion, "my lack thereof?" Why is it okay for men to refer to each other as "dude" but when a woman does it she is either immature or from the valley? Talk about a double standard. Your response to mine was egotistical to say the least.
I thought my response to yours was satisfactory. Look, you are claiming that Toyota has been given an advantage in all of NASCAR. Once again....there is no proof of that. The only known proof of this was in the Nationwide Series, not Sprint Cup. That is a FACT! You are the one trying to pass your opinions off as factual evidence of your argument. Opinions are not fact! I gave you that Toyota had been given an advantage in the Nationwide Series. Where we disagree is if there is an advantage being given in Sprint Cup. You are the one claiming the advantage, so the owness is on you to provide the proof!
I asked you to clarify your stance for me as I was trying to jump aboard your thought train. You still haven't done that. Telling me to "learn to listen and accept what you say" as factual is an insult to my intelligence or anyone else's for that matter!
Kim
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