McDowell's Wrecked Reached Limit of SAFER

Whether it was the safer barrier or the COT or in my suspicions a combo of both. That is what it is all about.

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I am happy to see that someone has finally done the vectoring needed to calculate the actual impact of these crashes. What is needed to do this is some basic trigonometry and the GPS information they now have on these cars to tell you how fast they are going at any given point and the direction they are going in relationship to the object they hit. People look at me like I am stupid when I try to tell them that Dale Sr did not crash into a wall "head on" at 180 MPH. Yes he was going 180 MPH but he did not go into a wall at that speed with all the force going in one direction. Just because the nose of the car hits the wall first does not mean that the car was going at 180 MPH directly into the wall. If that were the case the car would have been totally destroyed.
So, if I read this article correctly he hit the wall the same as running straight into a concrete barrier and coming to an instant stop at 44 MPH.
Now I am sure people are going to argue about their car accidents going faster and all that but really people, you have no idea what it would be like to come in an instant stop from 44 MPH. Let me give you some help with that. If you jumped off a 64.5 foot building onto a concrete slab below the force would be almost exactly the same. Of course this assumes no wind resistance.
MBL

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Hey Mike!

Thanks for the explanation although I have to admit, I am one of those people who is/was under the impression that when you are in a car accident, especially when hitting another vehicle, mathmatically speaking anyway, you actually end up going faster at impact because you have to factor in the speed of the other driver as well. That being said, it does make sense that if you hit a non-moving object you would slow down instead of speed up. So, I guess I get it. :-) I have been in a serious car accident and unfortunately remember being hit head on and remember all the horrible sounds and feelings. :-(

I also think Michael may have had a little angel on his shoulder this day. What an amazing & horrifying wreck. To see him climb out and just limp away and then be interviewed a half hour later, is just amazing! I think this kids got a future indeed.

Kim

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HERE WE GO AGAIN!
JUST WHEN THE JUNIOR FILE WAS GETTING INTERESTING
it disappears to make room for another yet monotony
and dumb MCDOUGLE FILE. ..... A REAL TRAVESTY.
anzaj@yahoo.com Does not work for me!.

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Very good explanation thanks Mike...

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When Dale Sr. hit the wall, he was going 180 forward, or, on the axis of the vehicle, and sideways, to that axis, at an angle, and lesser speed.
To establish the speed at which he hit a theoretically 'immoveable object', mathemtically, one must know the angle of his movement, at the time of impact, and his forward speed; then vector analysis becomes simple algebra.
Is would seem that the SAFER wall would perhaps extend the actual 'time of energy absorption', ie, reduce the 'instant stop effect', but a resiliant wall might also turn the car more crosswise to the track, bringing a bigger target for cars behind the incident, to get involved with!
The McDowell wreck is a poster child, for this theory; it would never have been so spectacular, into a concrete wall!

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Vfubar;
Your theory that the safer barrier actually "grabs" the car and therefore adds torque to the moving car is interesting. I am sure this has been tested. In the immovable object scenario the car comes into contact with the wall and the energey transfer is quick with the car bouncing back. The safer barrier maintains contact with the car for a longer period of time at the point of impact in essence holding the car at point of impact adding the "twist" or rotation. I would have to believe the engineers are aware of this and they have determined the reduction in point of impact force to be worth the trade off in what happens afterwards.
MBL
MBL

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I have been a NASCAR fan for 40 years. I like the safety improvements, but am not so sure about all of the added "rules". That being said, I want to make a few comments on the wreck. Some one mentioned "time of energy absorption", in Physics, which I teach, this is called impulse. A longer impulse extends the time that force is applied to an object. In return it reduces the force applied at any given moment. McDowell had all the benefits of years of improvements in safety. The COT, Safer Barrier and the Hans device all extended the impulse and thus lowered the overall force at any given moment, and allowed him to survive. Impulse is computed for every free object in motion. What killed Dale Sr. and allowed McDowell to survive was the fact that the head when not secured to the car by a HANS device has its own impulse thus snapping the spinal cord on Sr. and allowing McDowell to survive because his head was part of the overall impulse and not a free body. Hitting the barrier left front first as opposed to the usual right front helped as well. I am sure that there are a whole bunch of people far smarter than I ever hope too be studying every bit of information from this one.

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Don't forget Dale Earnhardt died because he made a flawed adjustment to his seat ( probably, illegal ), did not wear a fully enclosed helmet ( open- faced ),did not wear the Hans device ( not mandatory, at the time ), and the walls were not SAFER walls, at the time of his crash. Had those things been different then the way they were, back then, he would most likely be around today. There is no question, that by his death, Nascar has made the sport much more safer to race, with all the innovations and mandatory rules the drivers and their people working on these cars have to comply with. Just witness the McDowell crash, and you will see all these things come into play. I just wish Nascar would stop nit-picking these drivers and their crews, during post-race inspections. If a car can pass pre-race inspections, how is it they fail post-race inspections? And make the suspensions and/or fines equal, too

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Michael McDowell was on Ellen today and it is amazing that he is ok.

I just can't understand what prevents a concussion because even if your physically restrained wouldn't internal organs still be moving?

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Physics smysics....ok, we get the point that the cars of today are bullet proof. A point I have been making for some time. Part of the attraction of racing is the fact that the drivers are brave men/women who are taking great risks as they drive all out to try and win. As far as Nascar goes, you can't say that anymore. That being said, where do the drivers of today get off saying they are afraid to pass out of fear of the tires, or car handling. If they aren't "comfortable", they lay back and coast, then bitch about it to the press. They must shudder and need therapy when they glimpse the cars of yesterday. Bottom line, it makes for boring races and boring drivers. And no, I'm not a blood thirsty fan longing to see someone get killed, just someone mourning the loss of a passionate and thrilling sport. Let me say for the last time, Dale Sr was killed by a bad decision on his part, more than the lack of safety equipment. Review the tape and you will see there was no need for him to be trying to block in the first place. Waldrip and Jr were too far ahead for anyone to catch them. But he was from the old school of drivers, and they weren't seeking a "comfort" zone, just going all out to win. Works for me....

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Don,

I have to agree with you on one thing. The COT races are incredibly boring! For the past three weeks now, I have literally fallen asleep while watching my Sunday race. It is actually like the monontony of it all just soothes me and out I go. I wake up in time to see the end, which frankly isn't too spectacular either. I am with you. I don't want to see anyone killed or injured by any means but I do want to see fun, competitive, and exciting racing again! And you are also right, even the damn drivers are becoming boring!

Kim

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well said, Don.
MBL

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I just wanted to clarify the answer to the question of how a concussion occurs... When the car hits something and the occupant's head is propelled forward it of course carries with it the brain. As the car comes to an abrupt stop the head snaps back but the brain continues in a forward direction and hits the front part of the skull and is squished against it. The forward motion is called Coup and when the head goes backwards and takes the brain thus making it hit the back of the skull and this is called Contrecoup. This HANS (Head and Neck Support/System is in place in NASCAR to keep the head from snapping forward and backward as in normal road vehicle accidents. Therefore the Coup/Contrecoup motion is at the very least reduced and likely nonexistent... The driver's entire body becomes a fixture of the vehicle almost as though it were welded in place. Thus allowing, in part, for the driver to walk away from a wreck that would most certainly kill a normal road occupant. Hope this makes things a little clearer on the concussion question anyway. I also wanted to comment on how great it was, for once, to read a message board and find people discussing a subject where they actually understood the physiology of the matter at hand.

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Matt,

Thanks for the great explanation.

Susan

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I would simply like to say" Thank goodness for the HANS device." The hit that Michael McDowell took was really freightning to witness and I hope that NASCAR will take as good a long look at this wreck as they did with Dale Earnhardt.

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Matt, not all us Nascar fans are missing half our teeth and have junk cars sitting up on blocks in front of our homes. Just the fans of the number ___ car. LOL
MBL

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MBL,
LOL, I realize that but, my ignorant assumption comes from seeing so many bulletin boards where the subject interests me and foolishly I click on the link expecting some worth while comments... It seems instead the entire subject idea is lost a few comments in and then resorts to childish name calling or completely asinine theories... All of the discussion here was refreshingly scientific in nature or people that were interested enough to ask questions... Personally, I feel that it is very interesting for a sport that got its beginnings from the prohibition era and figuring out how to make your car go faster to run from the police and has evolved into that can be analyzed this scientifically is amazing... Anyway, hopefully I myself did not veer too far from the subject making me seem hypocritical... For lack of a better word I just found it cool that this is where I finally found a bulletin board subject that people actually knew what they were talking about...
By the way MBL I have a question that may show my ignorance... Exactly which car were you talking about on your last post? I ask out of curiosity because even though I hate to admit it in this forum I don't know enough about NASCAR to derive the answer even though everyone else here probably can... candlewik@aol.com
Matt

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Matt, this is one of the ONLY Nascar blogs that has not broken down into the trash talking you refered to. if I were to come out and give the number I would use to fill in the blank this would surely awaken many and the fighting would ensue. I myself am guilty on numberous occassions of "correcting" peoples views on a certain WAY over rated driver. However, in the interest of fairness, I have pledged to not be too critical this season until 18 or 20 races in. This is to give that driver a chance to show that other factors have been holding him back. So far though it is 0 for 8 in '08 for the ___ car, HA. I loved that one.
All my chiding aside, the real reason I put the ____ in my previous post was so people could insert their own number there. I am quite certain there were at least ten different numbers thought of at the time. Although interestingly enough, I am sure my number was the MOST POPULAR one.
MBL

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Ok well I have another question for you... It doesn't appear that many other than you and I are still looking in on this bulletin board (by the way is that the correct term for what we are posting?) Anyway, what is the significance of the number on the car??? I'm assuming that it more or less has a made up meaning right like Earnhardt Jr. being number 88 because his dad was #8? Hope I got those numbers right for the example like I said I'm quite ignorant when it comes to these details... Another thing that I took notice of why does Dale Earnhardt Jr. drive for Hendrick Motorsports instead of Dale Earnhardt Inc? By the way, I put my email address at the bottom of my last post so you could answer me there if you want... Due mainly to my complete lack of knowledge and the fact that I am getting way off subject in my questions...
Thanks, Matt (candlewik@aol.com)

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